Comments on: “Polish death camps” censorship bill angers Israeli government http://www.krakowpost.com/18591/2018/01/polish-death-camps-censorship-bill-angers-israel Tue, 20 Feb 2018 22:28:45 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.4 By: Mae White http://www.krakowpost.com/18591/2018/01/polish-death-camps-censorship-bill-angers-israel#comment-1849518 Tue, 20 Feb 2018 22:28:45 +0000 http://www.krakowpost.com/?p=18591#comment-1849518 Your grandfather did NOT die after a “Polish Jew’s interrogation
I call you a liar.

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By: Sylvia http://www.krakowpost.com/18591/2018/01/polish-death-camps-censorship-bill-angers-israel#comment-1848658 Wed, 14 Feb 2018 01:27:20 +0000 http://www.krakowpost.com/?p=18591#comment-1848658 To make words and phrases illegal suggests that there is something to be hidden. What are you trying to hide? It would be much wiser to use this as an educational opportunity. The truth will speak for itself. Bring things out in the open for discussion and debate. I am of Polish descent and would like to believe that Poland did not support the Nazi actions. But if you use censorship and threats of legal actions, it makes it sound like the Poles were involved and have something to hide. Keep the discussion open, let the truth speak for itself.

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By: michal karski http://www.krakowpost.com/18591/2018/01/polish-death-camps-censorship-bill-angers-israel#comment-1848190 Sun, 11 Feb 2018 16:32:06 +0000 http://www.krakowpost.com/?p=18591#comment-1848190 PS – I think I preferred the film to the book.

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By: michal karski http://www.krakowpost.com/18591/2018/01/polish-death-camps-censorship-bill-angers-israel#comment-1848189 Sun, 11 Feb 2018 16:31:28 +0000 http://www.krakowpost.com/?p=18591#comment-1848189 I don’t think the Prezes actually knows what’s hit him. Does he not realize that it was the failure of his own government to confront the extreme right-wing xenophobes and anti-Semites which has brought about this state of affairs? Granted, there are people out there right now accusing Poland of “Holocaust Denialism”, which is not strictly fair – since no-one is denying the reality of the Holocaust – but this proposed law will not only inhibit academic discussion of history, but it has already alienated Israel and Ukraine, and is making no friends in the USA. Historians should be able to establish who did what when without being afraid of upsetting any governments.

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By: michal karski http://www.krakowpost.com/18591/2018/01/polish-death-camps-censorship-bill-angers-israel#comment-1848169 Sun, 11 Feb 2018 12:02:42 +0000 http://www.krakowpost.com/?p=18591#comment-1848169 “To save their own skins” is the important qualification. Citizens were no longer under the protection of any kind of civilized law. The Third Reich’s genocidal policies were in operation. A barbaric invader could shoot anyone in the street with impunity for no other reason than their physical appearance. So people were murdered en masse, as we know. How many of us would have acted heroically in the circumstances of those times?

I note Mr K is condemning anti-Semitism, and rightly. But a little bit of humility on the part of this government might be in order. There are voices on all sides of this debate shouting “what about this?” or “what about that?” What about the alleged enthusiasm of some Polish citizens who greeted the invaders, both the invading army from the west as well as the invading army from the east. These are matters for objective historians and not for any government decree.

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By: Eva http://www.krakowpost.com/18591/2018/01/polish-death-camps-censorship-bill-angers-israel#comment-1848146 Sun, 11 Feb 2018 06:38:10 +0000 http://www.krakowpost.com/?p=18591#comment-1848146 Hundreds of thousand News murdered by Poles? Where did you get those statistics from? Evidence?
Maybe you should look into the Jews who collaborated with the Germans to save their own skins.

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By: michal karski http://www.krakowpost.com/18591/2018/01/polish-death-camps-censorship-bill-angers-israel#comment-1847941 Fri, 09 Feb 2018 13:56:54 +0000 http://www.krakowpost.com/?p=18591#comment-1847941 Kosinski was a troubled soul. Perhaps he is best remembered for the brilliant satire ‘Being There’ instead of the grotesque ‘Painted Bird’

Enough from me. Arrivederci.

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By: michal karski http://www.krakowpost.com/18591/2018/01/polish-death-camps-censorship-bill-angers-israel#comment-1847928 Fri, 09 Feb 2018 09:14:20 +0000 http://www.krakowpost.com/?p=18591#comment-1847928 The exemptions for artists will be an interesting case. How will this new law apply to Kosinski’s “Painted Bird”, for instance? If a work of fantasy like this remains unaffected, then is there any point to the law?

As for any criminality by Polish citizens against other Polish citizens, it’s important, I believe, to allow historians the freedom to research the context, without fear of falling foul of any laws. It is probably true to say, without in any way justifying criminal acts, that extreme conditions make for extreme behaviour. Here is a good article on the subject:

http://cosmopolitanreview.com/beyond-the-ulmas-the-need-for-a-social-history-of-genocide-in-occupied-poland/

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By: michal karski http://www.krakowpost.com/18591/2018/01/polish-death-camps-censorship-bill-angers-israel#comment-1847868 Thu, 08 Feb 2018 16:40:50 +0000 http://www.krakowpost.com/?p=18591#comment-1847868 Much of the fighting of the first war was on Polish territory, except there was no actual modern Poland before the end of WWI. I recommend ‘Heart of Europe – a short history of Poland’, by Norman Davies.

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By: michal karski http://www.krakowpost.com/18591/2018/01/polish-death-camps-censorship-bill-angers-israel#comment-1847839 Thu, 08 Feb 2018 11:16:03 +0000 http://www.krakowpost.com/?p=18591#comment-1847839 I absolutely agree that this government has made a huge mistake. This proposed law will make people like you and me think twice before engaging in any kind of debate. But statistics, for instance, need to be discussed. As far as I am aware, the only person talking about a figure of hundreds of thousands is Prof. Jan Grabowski. Nevertheless, even any kind of debate on this topic. would risk the heavy hand of this proposed law. I personally would never say “Poland was complicit”, as many people seem to be saying. The state of Poland had been destroyed by the double invasion, so Poland, as an entity, cannot be held responsible. I think this may be the purpose behind this law, but I fail to see how a law will change anyone’s entrenched attitudes.

The same people who like to highlight Polish heroism should also admit that a proportion of Polish people were certainly complicit in German crimes. The question is – what proportion? It needs to be remembered that many thousands of Poles (and not only Christians, but other Polish citizens) were either in Stalin’s Gulag at the time, or else were fighting the Nazis in Polish formations abroad. The question of what proportion of Polish citizens back in Poland were engaged in crimes is something to be determined by historians, it seems to me, and not something to be regulated by a new, unworkable law which will only stifle debate.

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